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thank you well good morning and going to

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all up Spence thank you for joining us

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this is the maybe fourth one of these

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webinars is that we're holding with the

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community to talk about astrobiology

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today we'll be talking to the early

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evolution of life and the biosphere so

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if that ring any bells with you you

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might be in the wrong well we go run for

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walleye and we are going to see the

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paneling now they're going to introduce

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themselves very shortly we have a series

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of questions which is designed to

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stimulate conversation amongst the

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community we'll probably talk for I

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don't for me about 30 do this and open

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up the microphones to to engage the

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audience the presenters are presenting

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thoroughly encourage you please to up

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into the open chat wonder you should see

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that on the left hand side of your

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screen please please engage in

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conversation there my colleague David

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low mass will be picking through there

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and trying to pick out useful and

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interesting comments which he will then

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transpose into the live notes area which

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will use a little bit later after this

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event if you have any questions at any

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stage we would ask you to put it into

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the open chat window we'd ask you to

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keep your microphones closed for this

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moment and when we come to the Q&A

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session in short while we'll ask you to

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raise your hand in the attendees window

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there's a little icon at the top of your

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screen for raising your hand and then we

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can draw you into the conference and we

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can speak live with you then so

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hopefully that's that sort of sets the

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scene Michael do I hand across to you

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too because a little bit of context

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about this particular whatever everybody

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I'm Michael new I'm the astrobiology

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discipline scientist at NASA

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headquarters

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and I'm one of the people at NASA

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headquarters who are eagerly awaiting

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the outcome of this webinar as well as

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the previous webinars and the online

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discussion um we are so the purpose of

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this webinar is to talk about some big

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questions in the early evolution of life

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and the biosphere now by this we tend to

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think of life on Earth or anywhere else

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uh not just evolving on some fixed

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physical substrate but actually

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coevolving with that substrate for the

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way to think about it or an example

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rather is you look at the early Earth

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well the early Earth we stink has very

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little or no oxygen in his app in the

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atmosphere that oxygen came from life so

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we had a an oxy atmosphere and that led

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to a bunch of geochemical cycles of

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various metals and and other elements

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and then life figured out how to do

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oxygenating photosynthesis and all of a

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sudden there was all this nasty toxic

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oxygen everywhere it's not only drove

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the evolution of the biology it also

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changed old geochemical cycles or many

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of them and so the purpose of this

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webinar is to begin our online

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conversation about where are the

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compelling questions facing us for the

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next decade or so in this area of the

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early evolution of life and it's

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coevolution with the biosphere we are

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hoping you will all take vigorous part

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in this discussion today now as well as

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in the online part of it there are

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discussion for that will be open after

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this dealing with major questions we and

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we're going to and there's two reasons

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to participate in those dis online

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discussions the first is that you know

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what you say will affect what we think

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and the people who in the end of the day

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are going to be writing the roadmap or

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I'm going to be listening and reading

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more importantly we're going to be

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picking some of those people from active

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interesting participants in the online

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discussion and so this gives you even

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more direct route into writing the

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roadmap so without any further ado of

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their own attorney

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I will be happy to turn this over to go

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thank you very much Michael before we

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start could we just have a little

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instruction from our pal Diane Tim and

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Dave ever do I could do cos oh sure hi

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everybody thank you for joining this we

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have designed the questions for our

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discussion today wanting to hear from

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you we really don't want to do a lot of

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talking our goal is to make this an open

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discussion so that we get new ideas and

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that's why the opening questions are

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very broad so we really encourage you to

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please speak up and let us know what you

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think my background I should introduce

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myself sorry i work at Caltech in

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pasadena california i'm also an

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investigator of the hierarchies medical

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institute and i'm a molecular geo

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biologist and by that I mean I'm

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somebody who studies modern

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microorganisms with molecular genetic

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and cellular biological tools with the

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hope of understanding how it is that

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modern bacteria catalyzed processes that

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are of relevance both to modern shoe

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chemical cycles and also of relevance to

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helping us interpret ancient imprints of

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microorganisms be they in the form of

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biomarkers that are organic or larger

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bio signatures that are inorganic so

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that's my introduction I'm going to sign

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off this is tim life very much yeah this

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is tim lines and i would on i welcome

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you all also and thank you for

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participating and I would echo her

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comments that that she and dave and i

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will have a lot of time to talk offline

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about these things and so the point here

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is really to get your feedback so please

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do that and for those of you that i

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don't know i'm a bio geochemist at the

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University of California Riverside I

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work with the wide range of elemental

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and isotopic approaches towards basic

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questions about the earliest oxygenation

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of the ocean and atmosphere on this work

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often involves novel proxies including

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sulfur and trace metal concentrations

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and increasingly isotopic approaches

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with metals that are first are often

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developed and validated and calibrated

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in modern oxygen deficient settings and

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this work is all done really with the

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goal of providing a backdrop for the

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earlier

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of life and concluding the first

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appearance of osteogenic photosynthesis

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and the first appear at the

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diversification of eukaryotes and

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ultimately animals and so it's all about

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feedbacks and tipping points controls on

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early habitability and specifically the

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cause-effect relationship with the

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between the evolving environments and as

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Michael noted the coevolution of life in

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its diversity so I'll go ahead and turn

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it over two days great thanks thanks to

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everybody for joining us all my name is

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Dave Johnson and isotope trio biologist

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at Harvard and I use a mixture of kind

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of tools like Tim uses and tools like

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Diane uses to try to reconstruct valeo

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environment and so that kind of takes me

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a little bit into microbial ecology

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where we look to study rate laws and

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physiology organisms and how that

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translates isotope records and then also

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going out and working in sedimentary

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basins from deeper kielian to try to

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then reconstruct isotope records through

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those environments and then we use some

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modeling to bridge between the two so

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thank you very much Tim and done let's

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let's kick straight off into the into

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the big questions leave the questions

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that have arisen from a whole whole line

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of questions these are decided as

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probably the most interesting at the

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moment so could I kick off with this

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first question what types of approaches

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are needed to answer mechanistic

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questions about the early evolution of

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life in the biosphere anyone want to

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okay now I'm not hearing anybody I'm

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just hearing crickets chirping come on

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it's like 20 people involved is it

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somebody must have something to say so

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can we start with Diane please what is

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it an important question I think this is

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an important question because we've had

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a real revolution in technical

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capabilities that bear on biological

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problems within the past decade both at

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the level of an explosion of sequencing

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capability as well as improvements in

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our analytical abilities with regard to

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detecting a whole variety of isotopes at

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very small levels of spatial resolution

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those are just two examples and I think

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with these advances and technologies

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comes this question which is there are

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many really interesting topics in the

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field of geobiology and we need to be

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clear I think in regard to which

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questions require certain types of

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approaches and so as an example just to

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get the discussion going I would say

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that if one is trying to understand the

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meaning of an ancient biomarker for

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instance it is really vital to

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understand this function of that

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biomarker in living cells and the only

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way we can really understand function is

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through doing work with modern organisms

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at the physiological level and

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oftentimes we require mutants so that we

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can isolate particular genes that are

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important for encoding the machinery

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necessary to make those biomarkers and

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once we delete them then we have mutants

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at our disposal that we can interrogate

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in many ways to try to identify what the

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absence of these molecules does for the

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organism that produces them and

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i buy these type of approaches we can

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get a much clearer understanding of what

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the biomarkers actually do for the cells

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that produce them and I think that this

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is necessary in order to have a rigorous

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interpretation of of what these

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molecules mean in the rock record so

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that's just one example and I think it

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would be good to get a discussion going

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about that and any other examples that

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people would like to talk about thank

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you tin Dave you have a comment on this

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well I could but it seems like there

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might be people who were getting a lot

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of typing and it would be nice to have

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real-time oral exchange with this too i

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think yes yeah and i say that mike

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tyson's actually raised his hands can

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everybody hear me absolutely in the

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lines of my component speakers okay

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thanks Oh agree with it public what

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Diane said and add that for much of the

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time we're finding these questions are

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relevant we have very little material

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actually preserved and so yeah I think

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its weak willed it to think about what

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are the high volume records first time

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when talk jack businesses like this

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might be evolving or other things and

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unfortunately I think it's been very

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difficult to apply what what has been

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done thinking about the heat magazine

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awarded his work for that record as of

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yet I think it's really required in the

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near future as for for people who talk

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about mechanisms and particularly work

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the rock records to collaborate knobbers

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who can help us test my up i pod think

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about how very small scale processes

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work their way into highly visible

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products in the rock record essentially

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like roommates and Rovers on Mars for

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instance

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we know how to scale from from things

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are small no biological interest that

279
00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:02,410
the things that are largely observable

280
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yeah poorly preserved Raj okay Kenny yes

281
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domina creature I don't know microphone

282
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on now this is Dominic webinar okay this

283
00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:32,650
is complicated I know if its own when

284
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it's red or white but in any case I

285
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wanted to interject because i think that

286
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:38,860
the n mentioned something very important

287
00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:41,920
about the advancement of my corona

288
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litical techniques and very specific

289
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:45,190
instruments that are increasingly being

290
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used by members of our community as well

291
00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:50,110
as members of the geobiology community

292
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at large last year i was part of an

293
00:13:57,510 --> 00:13:55,510
effort to redefine or to kind of get the

294
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greater guidelines of the mother

295
00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:00,850
geobiology program would be or ought to

296
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:04,150
be at at NSF at a symposium and in

297
00:14:09,180 --> 00:14:06,010
washington DC and i propose the field of

298
00:14:10,950 --> 00:14:09,190
nano geobiology and I like to kind of

299
00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:10,960
rephrase that at nano biogeochemistry

300
00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:12,600
which i think is probably the most

301
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:16,600
exciting approach and of course I'm

302
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:18,730
speaking from my own from my own

303
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:20,470
background and I'm preaching for my own

304
00:14:29,220 --> 00:14:25,770
church in a way but overall I think that

305
00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:29,230
that the dire need here from from

306
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:32,440
everything that everyone seemed to have

307
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,530
discussed in the forums online is

308
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:36,880
converging towards Mars we want to know

309
00:14:41,460 --> 00:14:39,310
what the origin of life is on earth how

310
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:41,470
to recognize biomolecules on the early

311
00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:43,810
Earth as an example for finding to

312
00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:45,430
hopefully finding them on Mars and

313
00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:47,320
create the whole Mars and Mars

314
00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:49,300
exploration program is of utmost

315
00:14:54,630 --> 00:14:52,440
elements to astrobiology so I think that

316
00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:54,640
if the efforts of the astrobiology

317
00:14:59,850 --> 00:14:57,460
community were to support a Mars sample

318
00:15:02,070 --> 00:14:59,860
return I think that this would be the

319
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:02,080
timing I mean it partly with respect to

320
00:15:06,750 --> 00:15:04,450
that to the Russians and the Chinese who

321
00:15:07,369 --> 00:15:06,760
want to send mar sample return missions

322
00:15:09,139 --> 00:15:07,379
that

323
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:09,149
bodycon our sample return missions over

324
00:15:13,909 --> 00:15:11,519
the neck to the the next decade or 15

325
00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:13,919
years like it in half and of course it

326
00:15:18,349 --> 00:15:16,139
should I mean we're talking about these

327
00:15:22,249 --> 00:15:18,359
projects a MRSA for joint mission but

328
00:15:23,659 --> 00:15:22,259
the the crux of the matter remains how

329
00:15:25,429 --> 00:15:23,669
we can analyze how we're going to

330
00:15:28,489 --> 00:15:25,439
prepare to analyze the samples we do

331
00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:28,499
that a peaceful laboratory enclosed in a

332
00:15:35,059 --> 00:15:31,649
clinic in a class 100 clean room and we

333
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:35,069
need like these these these astronaut

334
00:15:37,969 --> 00:15:36,839
Sciences if you wish working in a

335
00:15:40,309 --> 00:15:37,979
facility that they're completely

336
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protected from any potential pathogens

337
00:15:46,059 --> 00:15:43,279
from a planetary protection

338
00:15:49,609 --> 00:15:46,069
consideration but a project like this

339
00:15:51,499 --> 00:15:49,619
that by this details and a lot more

340
00:15:53,710 --> 00:15:51,509
detailed and I'm going to talk with

341
00:15:56,799 --> 00:15:53,720
because I realize I'm talking about this

342
00:15:59,210 --> 00:15:56,809
it does detail in a forum for the

343
00:16:02,149 --> 00:15:59,220
planetary biosafety microanalysis

344
00:16:04,429 --> 00:16:02,159
laboratory that I contributed online so

345
00:16:05,779 --> 00:16:04,439
anyways my ideas are there and and I

346
00:16:08,749 --> 00:16:05,789
think that there will be a potentially

347
00:16:11,869 --> 00:16:08,759
huge appeal / education public outreach

348
00:16:14,769 --> 00:16:11,879
as well as a tremendous opportunity for

349
00:16:17,149 --> 00:16:14,779
the whole geobiology community the whole

350
00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:17,159
precambrian biochemistry community but

351
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:19,409
also the cosmochemistry communities the

352
00:16:24,109 --> 00:16:22,079
meijer communities and as well as the

353
00:16:25,369 --> 00:16:24,119
virologist and follicular biologists

354
00:16:28,539 --> 00:16:25,379
because I think that's many instruments

355
00:16:32,269 --> 00:16:28,549
that should be enclosed in such a p4

356
00:16:34,340 --> 00:16:32,279
value of safeties i will pass pass 100

357
00:16:36,739 --> 00:16:34,350
painting room these instruments should

358
00:16:38,269 --> 00:16:36,749
be should be instruments that are very

359
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:38,279
versatile for our range of different

360
00:16:44,929 --> 00:16:41,759
analyses in terms of what at the end

361
00:16:48,469 --> 00:16:44,939
talk about i think that that Diane

362
00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:48,479
mentioned very clearly that there's a an

363
00:16:52,309 --> 00:16:50,279
increased recognition that instruments

364
00:16:53,569 --> 00:16:52,319
today are offering possibilities that

365
00:16:55,579 --> 00:16:53,579
they were not offering before and

366
00:16:57,259 --> 00:16:55,589
campuses that opportunity while you know

367
00:16:59,449 --> 00:16:57,269
we're still developing the approach but

368
00:17:02,029 --> 00:16:59,459
as a top Sims would be a very good for

369
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:02,039
organic biomarkers as Vienna is raising

370
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:03,199
your hand I'm sorry I asking too much

371
00:17:09,289 --> 00:17:05,490
and anyways what is an instrument will

372
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:09,299
include a GM with a cryo stage a focused

373
00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:12,000
ion beam with a cryo stage as well as a

374
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:15,179
laser Rahman ftir optical microscopes

375
00:17:19,929 --> 00:17:16,850
nano sim and

376
00:17:21,189 --> 00:17:19,939
yeah austin by gosh yeah iiii think all

377
00:17:23,770 --> 00:17:21,199
the clothes in a facility like this

378
00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:23,780
would very good noble goal for NASA and

379
00:17:29,770 --> 00:17:26,140
I urge all the disciplines we represent

380
00:17:31,419 --> 00:17:29,780
well ma am I just asked can I just ask

381
00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:31,429
em to respond to that the young had a

382
00:17:37,299 --> 00:17:35,750
response I would just like I agree with

383
00:17:40,659 --> 00:17:37,309
everything you're saying I think it'll

384
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:40,669
be even more helpful if you can frame

385
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:43,370
very specific types of questions where

386
00:17:48,190 --> 00:17:46,010
this type of microanalysis is essential

387
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:48,200
I think it depends on the question and

388
00:17:53,620 --> 00:17:50,720
it's important to be very clear what

389
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:53,630
types of questions absolutely require

390
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:56,690
this and and what and what those

391
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:00,799
questions are thank you Dan we're going

392
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:02,510
to move on to another question surely

393
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:04,370
but before we do so Dave did you have a

394
00:18:10,270 --> 00:18:08,690
comment on our first question here yeah

395
00:18:11,860 --> 00:18:10,280
I just wanted to follow up briefly on

396
00:18:13,779 --> 00:18:11,870
some of the chatter that's going on in

397
00:18:16,149 --> 00:18:13,789
the open chat as well so one of the

398
00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:16,159
things that that I think that's a harder

399
00:18:19,870 --> 00:18:17,990
book with Diana thing and Dominic's

400
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:19,880
point is that we have these micro scales

401
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:21,650
of analysis that are now available to us

402
00:18:25,899 --> 00:18:24,110
and one of the things that I I struggled

403
00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:25,909
with and I'm curious the community feel

404
00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:28,460
similarly is that we often take an

405
00:18:32,169 --> 00:18:30,289
interpretive framework based on a whole

406
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,179
rock or hand sample size sample and

407
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:34,400
apply it to these very very small scale

408
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:37,010
measurement it's called kind of such of

409
00:18:41,649 --> 00:18:39,980
a comment day I believe has made that

410
00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:41,659
modeling or having some quantitative

411
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:44,150
framework to bridge measuring something

412
00:18:48,909 --> 00:18:46,450
on the net us can help to a

413
00:18:51,610 --> 00:18:48,919
process-oriented interpretation of the

414
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:51,620
emotions gallery a specific sales seems

415
00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:55,610
like Mary of opportunity and so that's

416
00:18:58,810 --> 00:18:57,049
kind of my notes and I'm curious if

417
00:19:02,850 --> 00:18:58,820
others feel the same way we move on to

418
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:05,440
thank you very much I see that oma has

419
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:06,890
use hand up but oh my if you could just

420
00:19:10,779 --> 00:19:08,510
bear with us for a moment will come to

421
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:10,789
an open mic in a short while I'd like to

422
00:19:16,570 --> 00:19:13,090
move the conversation to our second

423
00:19:18,399 --> 00:19:16,580
second open panel question are there

424
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:18,409
problems you think that a vital to

425
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:20,090
understanding the early evolution of

426
00:19:25,659 --> 00:19:23,090
life and the biosphere that have not yet

427
00:19:27,610 --> 00:19:25,669
been articulated by NASA I'm wondering

428
00:19:30,159 --> 00:19:27,620
Tim produced arms off why you think this

429
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:30,169
is an important question yeah and I

430
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:30,950
think it sort of

431
00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:33,170
follows up on the previous question I

432
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:35,720
die to think that this it's I for me

433
00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:37,070
there's really been a renaissance it

434
00:19:43,290 --> 00:19:40,310
started in the in the late 90s and I

435
00:19:45,550 --> 00:19:43,300
think it that was motivated in part by a

436
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:45,560
evolving array of proxies that were

437
00:19:49,210 --> 00:19:47,330
addressing fundamental questions about

438
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:49,220
early Earth's oxygen evolution a

439
00:19:52,690 --> 00:19:50,810
particular but tied to that are methane

440
00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:52,700
and many other components of the

441
00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:54,350
atmosphere that plays central roles and

442
00:19:58,750 --> 00:19:56,750
maintaining habitability and so there

443
00:20:00,220 --> 00:19:58,760
was there was instrumentation but there

444
00:20:02,110 --> 00:20:00,230
was also a lot of coupling to

445
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:02,120
experimental work and so I worry a

446
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:05,210
little bit I the micro analytical

447
00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:07,090
obviously is essential and the scale of

448
00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:09,350
observation is essential and a lot of

449
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:12,230
those those approaches are motivated by

450
00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:13,970
rover technology and things we might be

451
00:20:17,770 --> 00:20:15,580
able to do institue on another planet

452
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:17,780
but I also worry a little bit about

453
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:19,460
forest for trees and so many of the

454
00:20:24,790 --> 00:20:22,400
answers that have come so far have have

455
00:20:27,850 --> 00:20:24,800
not just been in many cases have not

456
00:20:29,530 --> 00:20:27,860
been the advances have not come from my

457
00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:29,540
core analytical techniques but simply

458
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:31,550
new ways of trying to quantify with the

459
00:20:34,450 --> 00:20:32,930
ocean and atmospheric chemistry were

460
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:34,460
including Dominus dependent sulfur

461
00:20:38,350 --> 00:20:36,770
fractionations and metal mass balances

462
00:20:39,670 --> 00:20:38,360
in some cases relatively simple

463
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:39,680
approaches that have been taken in new

464
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:43,310
directions to try and quantify so the

465
00:20:46,150 --> 00:20:45,050
biggest question in earlier studies is

466
00:20:48,010 --> 00:20:46,160
not measuring presence or absence

467
00:20:49,630 --> 00:20:48,020
anymore but try to quantify what the

468
00:20:52,990 --> 00:20:49,640
composition of the ocean and atmosphere

469
00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:53,000
were and so I continue to think that

470
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:55,070
fundamental questions that we have are

471
00:20:58,990 --> 00:20:57,440
our about when did oxygen first appear

472
00:21:02,080 --> 00:20:59,000
we've been asking those questions but we

473
00:21:04,270 --> 00:21:02,090
need to continue to do that and and I

474
00:21:07,060 --> 00:21:04,280
think also proxies that allow us to

475
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:07,070
better understand what the more

476
00:21:10,510 --> 00:21:08,570
comprehensive composition of the

477
00:21:12,820 --> 00:21:10,520
atmosphere was as we try and understand

478
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:12,830
greenhouse warming capabilities of the

479
00:21:19,150 --> 00:21:15,110
atmosphere and so forth or are really

480
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:19,160
essential here and I also I worry a

481
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:20,810
little bit if we steer that the

482
00:21:24,370 --> 00:21:22,850
conversation too much towards Mars and

483
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:24,380
sample return I personally am very

484
00:21:28,150 --> 00:21:26,240
interested in icy moons as I know many

485
00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:28,160
other people are and the last question

486
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:29,960
will address this but I'm also very very

487
00:21:34,420 --> 00:21:32,960
interested in exoplanets and so the the

488
00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:34,430
early Earth provides a wonderful

489
00:21:38,890 --> 00:21:36,950
experiment and in the face of a faint

490
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:38,900
Sun and understanding and an evolving

491
00:21:43,389 --> 00:21:40,730
same Sun so it gives us a range of

492
00:21:45,009 --> 00:21:43,399
conditions over which we can understand

493
00:21:46,899 --> 00:21:45,019
liquid water was maintained to tell life

494
00:21:48,459 --> 00:21:46,909
evolves and co evolve and drove our

495
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:48,469
environmental change and this incredible

496
00:21:52,299 --> 00:21:50,330
array of feedbacks that we had the earth

497
00:21:54,909 --> 00:21:52,309
history that allowed the earth to mate

498
00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:54,919
maintain a very special place in its

499
00:22:00,639 --> 00:21:58,369
history for the history of life and so I

500
00:22:02,619 --> 00:22:00,649
guess I ask as people address the second

501
00:22:04,239 --> 00:22:02,629
question to think to think broadly and

502
00:22:10,089 --> 00:22:04,249
not get too narrow towards Mars and

503
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:10,099
microanalysis stop there thank you

504
00:22:19,959 --> 00:22:18,049
beyond it I see you nodding there yes I

505
00:22:22,959 --> 00:22:19,969
support what Tim said I think it's

506
00:22:27,329 --> 00:22:22,969
important that we try to be you know

507
00:22:31,329 --> 00:22:27,339
broad in our thinking about questions

508
00:22:35,589 --> 00:22:31,339
and take a view for you know the sake of

509
00:22:37,509 --> 00:22:35,599
a funding regime right now where we're

510
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:37,519
quite limited we want as a community to

511
00:22:42,459 --> 00:22:39,679
try to collectively agree on things that

512
00:22:45,999 --> 00:22:42,469
are actually important and not get too

513
00:22:47,739 --> 00:22:46,009
parochial in in how we we think about

514
00:22:49,959 --> 00:22:47,749
these questions so that's just

515
00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:49,969
encouragement to give us your best ideas

516
00:22:53,769 --> 00:22:51,830
whether it's you know within your

517
00:22:56,889 --> 00:22:53,779
particular domain of what you've been

518
00:22:58,779 --> 00:22:56,899
doing or even better you know you know

519
00:23:00,940 --> 00:22:58,789
being broad and thinking about what's

520
00:23:02,469 --> 00:23:00,950
going to be exciting intellectually

521
00:23:09,899 --> 00:23:02,479
going forward for the next decade or

522
00:23:16,589 --> 00:23:12,339
think my co-leaders hit the nail on the

523
00:23:21,009 --> 00:23:19,029
purpose well in that case let's let's

524
00:23:22,389 --> 00:23:21,019
not press on through because we can come

525
00:23:24,519 --> 00:23:22,399
back to these in a short while ago from

526
00:23:27,779 --> 00:23:24,529
lights from other people our third

527
00:23:30,159 --> 00:23:27,789
question here how has exponential growth

528
00:23:33,969 --> 00:23:30,169
discovery of the study of extra players

529
00:23:35,859 --> 00:23:33,979
impacted um can we give you can we give

530
00:23:37,570 --> 00:23:35,869
people time to respond i think that

531
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:37,580
we're you know plowing through these

532
00:23:41,469 --> 00:23:39,529
questions and sometimes it takes people

533
00:23:43,959 --> 00:23:41,479
a little while to collect their thoughts

534
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:43,969
so can we just wait for 30 seconds and

535
00:23:50,859 --> 00:23:49,070
have somebody put something out most

536
00:23:53,259 --> 00:23:50,869
certainly there are plenty of questions

537
00:24:15,890 --> 00:23:53,269
coming through and some of them being

538
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:18,840
so this is just encouragement maybe Jake

539
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:21,910
Bailey can you pick up your mic and talk

540
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:24,910
or anyone else that would be great if we

541
00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:26,410
could hear you I think it's harder for

542
00:24:30,210 --> 00:24:29,320
everybody to focus on the open chats at

543
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:30,220
the same time we're having a

544
00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:32,770
conversation so anybody who wants to

545
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:34,390
take what you're writing in chat and

546
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:36,400
speak that would be really helpful thank

547
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:40,570
you just a quick follow-up on that this

548
00:24:45,060 --> 00:24:42,610
is Mike you can use the raise hand

549
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:45,070
feature to let us know you want to speak

550
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:46,690
and that's located at the top of the

551
00:24:49,950 --> 00:24:48,130
screen there's an icon of a person

552
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:49,960
raising their hand just click that

553
00:24:59,159 --> 00:24:51,730
select raise hand and then we will open

554
00:25:05,039 --> 00:24:59,169
up the telecom line Thanks all right

555
00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:05,049
let's take lipstick chick then I I just

556
00:25:09,570 --> 00:25:07,240
wanted to make the point that the early

557
00:25:11,460 --> 00:25:09,580
carbon oxygen and sulfur has really been

558
00:25:13,169 --> 00:25:11,470
a focus and lots of great work has been

559
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:13,179
done on that but not so much has been

560
00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:16,330
done on phosphorus and nitrogen in part

561
00:25:20,399 --> 00:25:17,980
because nitrogen is difficult to

562
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:20,409
preserve but I think potentially as a

563
00:25:25,770 --> 00:25:23,020
community we can somehow focus more on

564
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,780
may be developing an interest in

565
00:25:34,430 --> 00:25:27,520
nitrogen and maybe technology that can

566
00:25:38,940 --> 00:25:36,720
maybe I can just expand on that I

567
00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:38,950
wholeheartedly agree and I think many

568
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,140
other the models for understanding that

569
00:25:45,570 --> 00:25:43,200
steps and oxygenation in the early Earth

570
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:45,580
require a deep understanding of nutrient

571
00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:48,250
cycling and protracted nutrient

572
00:25:51,930 --> 00:25:49,900
limitations that may shift in their

573
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:51,940
nature through time and the tipping

574
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:53,530
points that are required to get from one

575
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:55,630
regime to another I think most famously

576
00:25:59,700 --> 00:25:57,370
of getting from the mid proterozoic to

577
00:26:01,500 --> 00:25:59,710
the neoproterozoic and so i guess i

578
00:26:02,850 --> 00:26:01,510
would i would go beyond just nitrogen

579
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:02,860
and phosphorus and i would talk a lot

580
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,200
about micro nutrients as well that made

581
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:07,120
for example drive the nitrogen cycle and

582
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:09,010
so we and many other people are involved

583
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:12,610
in trying to glean quantitatively upon

584
00:26:17,159 --> 00:26:14,710
as as much as possible the metal

585
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:17,169
distributions to earth history and so

586
00:26:22,259 --> 00:26:19,570
that those questions of nutrients s has

587
00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:22,269
tied to carbon and oxygen and sulfur

588
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:24,070
they're all intricately linked obviously

589
00:26:28,409 --> 00:26:26,080
it's really essential and there's

590
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:28,419
there's been correspondingly little I

591
00:26:31,739 --> 00:26:30,369
think work done on phosphorus in

592
00:26:33,299 --> 00:26:31,749
particular a lot of people are thinking

593
00:26:34,859 --> 00:26:33,309
about controls on nitrogen but

594
00:26:42,389 --> 00:26:34,869
phosphorus maybe fall into the cracks

595
00:26:46,649 --> 00:26:42,399
event thank you Jim and dominic has a

596
00:26:50,729 --> 00:26:46,659
question as well oh yeah can you hear me

597
00:26:53,729 --> 00:26:50,739
can you hear me ok so I'm lowering my

598
00:26:57,149 --> 00:26:53,739
hand I just wanted to comment on Tim's

599
00:27:00,029 --> 00:26:57,159
previous comment that we should steer

600
00:27:02,699 --> 00:27:00,039
away from Mars because the other solar

601
00:27:05,009 --> 00:27:02,709
planet Terra satellites are also

602
00:27:06,539 --> 00:27:05,019
interesting I don't deny that but i

603
00:27:08,669 --> 00:27:06,549
think that to answer the most

604
00:27:10,769 --> 00:27:08,679
fundamental and central questions with

605
00:27:13,349 --> 00:27:10,779
astrobiology and probably of all human

606
00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:13,359
time has been is there life outside

607
00:27:17,099 --> 00:27:15,070
earth elsewhere in the universe and the

608
00:27:20,099 --> 00:27:17,109
way to answer that is wait for steady

609
00:27:23,129 --> 00:27:20,109
contact us or that they come here which

610
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:23,139
is not good idea and then or that we go

611
00:27:27,209 --> 00:27:25,329
and try to find it and Mars turns out to

612
00:27:29,549 --> 00:27:27,219
be the closest target with the highest

613
00:27:33,919 --> 00:27:29,559
potential and it is the closest target

614
00:27:36,419 --> 00:27:33,929
both timewise and financial wise so I I

615
00:27:38,849 --> 00:27:36,429
just think it would be a mistake to new

616
00:27:40,199 --> 00:27:38,859
astrobiology away from Mars and go in

617
00:27:42,029 --> 00:27:40,209
the outer solar system and we know very

618
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,039
well in am are several times ten years

619
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:44,320
ago was maybe four or five billion and

620
00:27:49,199 --> 00:27:46,089
now it's probably increase to 15 12

621
00:27:51,449 --> 00:27:49,209
billion and today's money first it's a

622
00:27:53,249 --> 00:27:51,459
huge undertaking for NASA but over the

623
00:27:55,769 --> 00:27:53,259
years the money can be spent lawton

624
00:27:58,139 --> 00:27:55,779
wisely and a facility like what I'm

625
00:28:00,419 --> 00:27:58,149
proposing that p vol facility that would

626
00:28:03,719 --> 00:28:00,429
house the instrument I numerated before

627
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:03,729
would enable a lot of the analyses that

628
00:28:08,339 --> 00:28:05,919
are being discussed right now and open

629
00:28:11,009 --> 00:28:08,349
new field and thinking of one of our

630
00:28:13,259 --> 00:28:11,019
pioneer founders are very Bloomberg the

631
00:28:18,989 --> 00:28:13,269
biology has been underrepresented since

632
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:18,999
his his passing and he contributed

633
00:28:22,949 --> 00:28:21,369
immensely to the field of medicine and i

634
00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:22,959
think that there's also significant

635
00:28:27,449 --> 00:28:24,940
contributions to be made to the field of

636
00:28:30,089 --> 00:28:27,459
medicine but also public health with a p

637
00:28:32,459 --> 00:28:30,099
4 biosafety planetary biosafety

638
00:28:33,620 --> 00:28:32,469
microanalysis laboratory because we

639
00:28:36,530 --> 00:28:33,630
don't really know a woman

640
00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:36,540
antigen many viruses have but for

641
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,030
biomarkers that can be detected by the

642
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:42,000
tech annoyed set that I intrusion yeah

643
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:44,550
go ahead I just like Tim can I can I

644
00:28:48,410 --> 00:28:46,620
since coming he didn't has hey I just

645
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:48,420
want to respond i certainly am NOT

646
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:50,250
trying to steer anything away from Mars

647
00:28:54,530 --> 00:28:52,410
on Mars friendly as much as anyone I

648
00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:54,540
just think that we need to cast a big

649
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:56,340
net especially early on in these

650
00:28:59,930 --> 00:28:57,810
discussions and one of the points of

651
00:29:03,260 --> 00:28:59,940
defining a roadmap is to laying a

652
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:03,270
framework of questions that may may

653
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:05,070
precipitate questions that we can't even

654
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:07,110
think about asking now so if you keep it

655
00:29:11,210 --> 00:29:08,340
general I think what are the fundamental

656
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:11,220
things that we need to know about not

657
00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:12,930
only history on earth that obviously how

658
00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:15,000
that allows us to inform exploration for

659
00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:17,220
life on Mars in many other places and so

660
00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:20,340
I just I just caution it's my personal

661
00:29:24,770 --> 00:29:21,990
perspective the caution us all not to

662
00:29:27,230 --> 00:29:24,780
focus too much on small analyses on one

663
00:29:28,790 --> 00:29:27,240
planet and and I think whatever we talk

664
00:29:30,410 --> 00:29:28,800
about speaks to Mars and we could

665
00:29:33,050 --> 00:29:30,420
certainly steer the conversation towards

666
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:33,060
Mars but I personally again speaking for

667
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:34,410
myself would like to hear a lot of

668
00:29:39,890 --> 00:29:36,240
clever things that maybe I've never

669
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:39,900
heard before and and absolutely

670
00:29:44,030 --> 00:29:41,730
everything you said about Mars is true

671
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,040
and and that may be the next time in 10

672
00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:45,840
years and whatever many years and that

673
00:29:50,270 --> 00:29:48,390
may remain the essential priority but it

674
00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:50,280
may not also and the part of the goal

675
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:52,020
here is to find out what those things

676
00:29:59,690 --> 00:29:57,120
should be I'll leave it there thank you

677
00:30:03,320 --> 00:29:59,700
Tim did you have some new insight into a

678
00:30:05,660 --> 00:30:03,330
Johnson I was actually just going to

679
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:05,670
circle back around to where this portion

680
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:07,260
of the conversation started with looking

681
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:08,910
at nutrient cycles and things like that

682
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:10,850
and you know our understanding is lean

683
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,440
because these are tough systems to try

684
00:30:16,910 --> 00:30:15,120
to sort out how to quantify or how to

685
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:16,920
get at and so I just posed the question

686
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:19,860
in the open chat as to whether people

687
00:30:23,630 --> 00:30:21,930
think it we just need to keep hammering

688
00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:23,640
on the geologic record in making

689
00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:25,830
measurements or it is it are we missing

690
00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:27,630
missing the mark all together and we

691
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:29,280
need new approaches or are their ideas

692
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:31,260
for how we can go about trying to access

693
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:33,540
some of these more cryptic element

694
00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:35,370
cycles in the are keen in particular

695
00:30:40,550 --> 00:30:38,280
that we know are hugely important but a

696
00:30:42,980 --> 00:30:40,560
little bit less tractable in terms of a

697
00:30:47,330 --> 00:30:42,990
classic sediment geochemistry context so

698
00:30:51,380 --> 00:30:49,460
thank you and there are lots of

699
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,390
questions coming through on the open

700
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:53,760
chat here I don't know if it's sir if we

701
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:56,010
wanted a dress that is directing now I I

702
00:30:59,330 --> 00:30:57,810
want to make sure we don't miss our last

703
00:31:01,340 --> 00:30:59,340
question and then have an open

704
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:01,350
discussion at the end of this so if you

705
00:31:07,010 --> 00:31:03,510
don't mind maybe we could look to our

706
00:31:09,410 --> 00:31:07,020
third question in our list of points

707
00:31:11,390 --> 00:31:09,420
that we drew out earlier how has the

708
00:31:13,790 --> 00:31:11,400
exponential growth in our discovery and

709
00:31:15,530 --> 00:31:13,800
understanding exoplanets impacted the

710
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:15,540
kinds of questions and informational

711
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:18,810
extract from early Earth record can

712
00:31:27,980 --> 00:31:20,310
someone on our panel started off with

713
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:27,990
that like I'll say are just a few things

714
00:31:32,660 --> 00:31:31,320
um I'm sure like like many of you I get

715
00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:32,670
excited every time there's a new

716
00:31:38,030 --> 00:31:35,190
discovery and they happen and they

717
00:31:39,650 --> 00:31:38,040
happen fast and I even with exponential

718
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,660
growth phase in our understanding of

719
00:31:44,170 --> 00:31:42,240
these systems and so I find out very

720
00:31:47,420 --> 00:31:44,180
exciting i also think that it resonates

721
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,430
really well with the public might my

722
00:31:51,650 --> 00:31:49,440
computer opens to the NPR web page like

723
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:51,660
I'm sure manatee Avenger and I'm very

724
00:31:55,910 --> 00:31:53,610
often see the latest exoplanet

725
00:31:59,600 --> 00:31:55,920
announcements highlighted on the MTR web

726
00:32:01,160 --> 00:31:59,610
page and so I think that you know one of

727
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:01,170
the fundamental frontiers is

728
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:02,580
understanding obviously the zone of

729
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:04,890
habitability and obviously we've gone

730
00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:07,500
far beyond just needing to to infer the

731
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:10,440
distance from a planet sun but it's

732
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:11,880
become so essential to try and

733
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:13,440
understand the associated atmospheres

734
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:15,450
and some of the most exciting work in

735
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:17,210
earlier studies is not just

736
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:19,170
understanding when oxygen was first

737
00:32:23,570 --> 00:32:21,510
produced in her first accumulators and

738
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:23,580
and then inhale it grew further to

739
00:32:27,710 --> 00:32:25,290
support different kinds of rice but what

740
00:32:30,530 --> 00:32:27,720
the associated loss of other gases for

741
00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:30,540
example methane were in parallel without

742
00:32:35,030 --> 00:32:32,190
in this huge part nautic attacks that

743
00:32:37,550 --> 00:32:35,040
happened likely in association with with

744
00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:37,560
shifting fundamentally redox and and so

745
00:32:44,150 --> 00:32:40,350
as we understand these these greenhouse

746
00:32:45,770 --> 00:32:44,160
climates and and the feedback in essence

747
00:32:47,150 --> 00:32:45,780
what happens is we've developed an

748
00:32:48,830 --> 00:32:47,160
atmosphere that was less favorable of

749
00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:48,840
methane well happily our son was

750
00:32:52,860 --> 00:32:50,350
becoming brighter and so

751
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,870
offsetting effect and sometimes those

752
00:32:56,909 --> 00:32:55,120
are really interesting scenarios that's

753
00:32:59,490 --> 00:32:56,919
a that need to be fully understand

754
00:33:02,310 --> 00:32:59,500
understood as we think about the broad

755
00:33:04,289 --> 00:33:02,320
range of habitability for for any planet

756
00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:04,299
including ours but any exoplanet in

757
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:22,049
thank you Tim damn Dave well maybe it's

758
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:23,440
the key things rolling one of the things

759
00:33:27,299 --> 00:33:25,360
that I've been thinking about recently

760
00:33:29,370 --> 00:33:27,309
it's just what we can do beyond looking

761
00:33:31,049 --> 00:33:29,380
for biogenic trace gases are kind of

762
00:33:32,669 --> 00:33:31,059
observing atmospheres if there are other

763
00:33:34,919 --> 00:33:32,679
thought experiments that we can run to

764
00:33:36,810 --> 00:33:34,929
try to better bring the sort of early

765
00:33:39,919 --> 00:33:36,820
Earth questions that we think about most

766
00:33:42,810 --> 00:33:39,929
often to this expanding catalogue of

767
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:42,820
exoplanets that certainly place a lot of

768
00:33:45,330 --> 00:33:44,110
excitement right now so if we could

769
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:45,340
build those bridges in ways with

770
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:46,720
meaningful and thoughtful i think that

771
00:33:52,890 --> 00:33:50,770
there's a lot to making i would just say

772
00:33:55,409 --> 00:33:52,900
that the wonderful thing about the

773
00:33:57,390 --> 00:33:55,419
exoplanets is that it forces us to go

774
00:34:00,270 --> 00:33:57,400
back to basic principles regarding what

775
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:00,280
is life and to think through sources for

776
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:04,450
both energy generation and also what

777
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:06,970
would be needed to build biomass in a

778
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:10,510
way that isn't biased but sort of comes

779
00:34:19,379 --> 00:34:15,210
at it you know from a very open-minded

780
00:34:22,980 --> 00:34:19,389
perspective and i'm looking at the

781
00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:22,990
online chat in real time as we're having

782
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:25,030
this discussion and I I notice that

783
00:34:29,070 --> 00:34:26,649
there are a lot of people chiming in

784
00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:29,080
regarding the importance of doing work

785
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:32,889
with modern organisms to understand for

786
00:34:39,690 --> 00:34:35,440
example trace elements that are key

787
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,700
micro nutrients and enzymes well they're

788
00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:41,679
micronutrients because they they go into

789
00:34:46,859 --> 00:34:44,710
enzymes as as metal cofactors for

790
00:34:49,649 --> 00:34:46,869
example and that when we're talking

791
00:34:51,740 --> 00:34:49,659
about exoplanets or life wherever it is

792
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:51,750
be it on the early Earth or an exoplanet

793
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:54,960
again it comes back to having a very

794
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,720
precise and well-informed understanding

795
00:35:02,579 --> 00:35:00,400
of what life is about today and what

796
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:02,589
types of things are possible

797
00:35:08,849 --> 00:35:05,650
and I guess I would invite anybody who

798
00:35:12,209 --> 00:35:08,859
is typing these comments to also get on

799
00:35:19,950 --> 00:35:12,219
the phone and expand upon what your your

800
00:35:21,749 --> 00:35:19,960
typing so everybody can hear and if I

801
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:21,759
could just build on that these

802
00:35:27,539 --> 00:35:24,160
conversations these questions will be on

803
00:35:30,209 --> 00:35:27,549
the website the astrobiology future dog

804
00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:30,219
website and so we encourage everybody to

805
00:35:36,140 --> 00:35:33,700
as many people as we can to get involved

806
00:35:40,009 --> 00:35:36,150
in those conversations on the website

807
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:40,019
now and after this event the trans trans

808
00:35:46,589 --> 00:35:43,599
transpose of this open chat will be on

809
00:35:58,350 --> 00:35:46,599
that site as soon as this conference is

810
00:36:03,210 --> 00:36:01,500
I see one comment I would like to call

811
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:03,220
out that I think is interesting where

812
00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:06,370
there isn't as much emphasis at least as

813
00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:08,590
as far as I'm aware and that is

814
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:11,380
experimental taphonomy so much of what

815
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:14,170
we do is look at ancient biosignatures

816
00:36:18,750 --> 00:36:16,290
and we often make a jump from

817
00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:18,760
experiments we do in the modern two

818
00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:20,020
things that occurred billions of years

819
00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:22,780
ago without a lot of understanding how

820
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:26,320
we get from now to then and so I'm

821
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:31,930
curious what type of work would fall

822
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:34,960
underneath that umbrella that is the

823
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:36,730
umbrella of experimental taphonomy what

824
00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:39,730
are people thinking would be useful for

825
00:36:43,950 --> 00:36:42,430
NASA to support in order for us to gain

826
00:36:49,170 --> 00:36:43,960
a deeper understanding of ancient

827
00:36:51,090 --> 00:36:49,180
biomarkers okay we have a couple of

828
00:36:52,860 --> 00:36:51,100
hands up us or kids you want to respond

829
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:52,870
to that first let me just very quickly

830
00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:54,730
or while people are thinking and typing

831
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:56,590
I was going to follow up before it

832
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,570
Scrolls too far up another soccer I've

833
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:00,640
got the comment about plate tectonics is

834
00:37:03,930 --> 00:37:02,410
also really really essential and it's

835
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:03,940
something we barely ever think about if

836
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:05,050
you look at the earth as a habitable

837
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:07,510
planet may be the single most essential

838
00:37:11,310 --> 00:37:09,490
partners plate tectonics in terms of

839
00:37:13,710 --> 00:37:11,320
gases that come out and buffer oxygen or

840
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:13,720
don't and also the essential recycling

841
00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:15,250
of nutrients we wouldn't be who we are

842
00:37:20,250 --> 00:37:17,620
today if it won't plate tectonics and so

843
00:37:23,070 --> 00:37:20,260
any diet ideas of how to explore the

844
00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:23,080
possibility of that further obviously

845
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:24,460
people are looking at within our solar

846
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:26,110
system picking art would be incredibly

847
00:37:33,930 --> 00:37:31,420
intriguing i'll be there thank you can

848
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:33,940
we ask mike tice to switch his mic on

849
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:37,770
and and speak please his hand is raised

850
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:40,930
okay well first of all just briefly i'll

851
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:43,810
say ah men to what tim just said but

852
00:37:48,930 --> 00:37:47,200
then I just had a comment about using

853
00:37:52,050 --> 00:37:48,940
modern microorganisms to understand

854
00:37:54,180 --> 00:37:52,060
constraints and other things and I think

855
00:37:58,340 --> 00:37:54,190
this is wonderful and necessary the

856
00:38:02,090 --> 00:37:58,350
thing that that constantly scares me is

857
00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:02,100
how little we may know or not know about

858
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:05,350
what modern micro organisms on Earth do

859
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:08,290
as a matter of biological necessity and

860
00:38:12,670 --> 00:38:09,970
how much as a matter of

861
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:12,680
historical contingency boats for

862
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:15,170
unpacking the early geologic record of

863
00:38:20,609 --> 00:38:16,730
life and for understanding life on other

864
00:38:24,609 --> 00:38:20,619
planets potentially and yeah certainly

865
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:24,619
you can imagine ways to work on that

866
00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:28,160
type of a problem but you know i'd like

867
00:38:34,210 --> 00:38:32,030
to maybe think a bit about how to how to

868
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:34,220
go into the geologic record a nascar

869
00:38:38,530 --> 00:38:35,359
they're fundamentally different ways

870
00:38:40,750 --> 00:38:38,540
that organism big things than what we

871
00:38:46,569 --> 00:38:40,760
see in modern the modern successful

872
00:38:52,290 --> 00:38:46,579
preserve descendants how do we approach

873
00:38:55,109 --> 00:38:52,300
that Mike what I'm raising that as a

874
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:55,119
something I think is important questions

875
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:57,170
I'm not saying that there's necessarily

876
00:39:02,589 --> 00:39:00,079
an easy solutions that maybe Robbie

877
00:39:05,650 --> 00:39:02,599
funneling dollars into at the moment but

878
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:05,660
certainly you know we need to be very

879
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,250
careful when we approach the geologic

880
00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:09,920
record that we understand what is a

881
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:12,859
signal of the desert black box process

882
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:15,530
that we're interested in and what is

883
00:39:19,329 --> 00:39:17,240
telling us about how the organism

884
00:39:23,260 --> 00:39:19,339
actually accomplished it yeah that makes

885
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:23,270
sense but does that get what you're

886
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:28,400
asking Dan I've sorta I realize it's a

887
00:39:33,370 --> 00:39:30,530
very hard question and I think your

888
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:33,380
points very good but I guess where I'm

889
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:35,450
trying to push you is a little bit more

890
00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:39,650
specific in how one can deal with that

891
00:39:44,650 --> 00:39:41,720
problem if you have any specific

892
00:39:46,660 --> 00:39:44,660
thoughts if not we can you know think

893
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:46,670
you think harder about it and give input

894
00:39:53,770 --> 00:39:50,480
at a later time does it means to me just

895
00:39:55,780 --> 00:39:53,780
some analogies here um yeah sure with

896
00:39:57,220 --> 00:39:55,790
McIlroy dances is fairly easy we can

897
00:39:59,140 --> 00:39:57,230
look into the record and key things that

898
00:40:02,950 --> 00:39:59,150
didn't have for instance five digits

899
00:40:06,430 --> 00:40:02,960
hands Wow with my quarry insensitive a

900
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:06,440
bit more complex and then there we can

901
00:40:10,390 --> 00:40:08,690
you know with with posters we're

902
00:40:13,569 --> 00:40:10,400
starting to do this where we go and look

903
00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:13,579
for central place where words where we

904
00:40:18,030 --> 00:40:15,020
using say different collect ronic

905
00:40:23,650 --> 00:40:18,040
scepters actually the electron donors

906
00:40:26,109 --> 00:40:23,660
purposes um no I

907
00:40:28,539 --> 00:40:26,119
I think probably mostly about the

908
00:40:29,890 --> 00:40:28,549
geologic record and so I come to see a

909
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:29,900
lot of the challenges there i'm

910
00:40:35,260 --> 00:40:32,450
wondering if maybe some cokes you who

911
00:40:44,010 --> 00:40:35,270
think in the lab and think molecular Lee

912
00:40:46,569 --> 00:40:44,020
went also have some insight at all can I

913
00:40:49,539 --> 00:40:46,579
thank you Mike and I got Rick Jake into

914
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:49,549
the conversation he has his arm raised

915
00:40:57,220 --> 00:40:50,990
might you put your arm down now if you

916
00:41:00,099 --> 00:40:57,230
want thank you hello I just want to make

917
00:41:03,789 --> 00:41:00,109
the point that that before we can sort

918
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,799
of apply biasing materials to ancient

919
00:41:07,839 --> 00:41:05,359
system of either on earth or on other

920
00:41:10,329 --> 00:41:07,849
planets we need to kind of subject those

921
00:41:12,370 --> 00:41:10,339
those potential but earns modern

922
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:12,380
biosignatures to the kind of pressure

923
00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:14,210
and temperature conditions that they

924
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:16,910
would experience after burial and so

925
00:41:21,339 --> 00:41:19,130
this might involve some use of either

926
00:41:24,099 --> 00:41:21,349
high temperature or pressure experiments

927
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:24,109
to try to subject you know our modern

928
00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:25,730
signatures to the kind of conditions

929
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:27,380
that they that they were experienced

930
00:41:32,349 --> 00:41:29,690
before ultimately being preserved and

931
00:41:45,269 --> 00:41:32,359
either rocks on earth or Mars or other

932
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:45,279
planet to potentially Thank You Jake

933
00:41:58,720 --> 00:41:52,400
bola you have your arm raised hello okay

934
00:42:01,120 --> 00:41:58,730
hear me okay so um expand on Jake's

935
00:42:04,299 --> 00:42:01,130
comment as a modern microbiologist I

936
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:04,309
study a lot of microorganisms in the lab

937
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,690
that have been cultured from the lab for

938
00:42:09,279 --> 00:42:07,520
many years and we look at the biomarkers

939
00:42:11,410 --> 00:42:09,289
and what their function might be and a

940
00:42:13,359 --> 00:42:11,420
question that I often get a lot of times

941
00:42:14,769 --> 00:42:13,369
from students is is how do we correlate

942
00:42:18,039 --> 00:42:14,779
that to the past and I think this gets

943
00:42:20,049 --> 00:42:18,049
to what Diane was saying and my thinking

944
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:20,059
has always been that if we can if we

945
00:42:26,289 --> 00:42:22,730
first determine what these molecules are

946
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,299
doing in an organism and in the lab we

947
00:42:31,660 --> 00:42:28,640
can expand out into environment that we

948
00:42:33,260 --> 00:42:31,670
consider analogs for sister and as an

949
00:42:35,210 --> 00:42:33,270
example and then ask

950
00:42:38,180 --> 00:42:35,220
annually culture organisms that an

951
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:38,190
environment are these molecules being

952
00:42:42,530 --> 00:42:40,380
used in the same way and that brings us

953
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,540
a connection from the lab into the

954
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:44,640
environment and then we can even use

955
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,180
more modern molecular techniques such as

956
00:42:51,410 --> 00:42:49,680
transcriptomic to see how their

957
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:51,420
expression is an actual environment

958
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:53,160
where we see the pressures of say if

959
00:42:59,060 --> 00:42:55,890
there's pressure from pH changes or

960
00:43:00,860 --> 00:42:59,070
different environmental facts so that's

961
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:00,870
kind of my comment as kind of a way to

962
00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:03,690
get from the labs who eventually the

963
00:43:18,820 --> 00:43:10,680
rock record and I think that's it thank

964
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:22,160
throughout a lot of this discussion it

965
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:24,810
seems like we we kind of are coming down

966
00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:26,280
on two different sorts of proxies

967
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:29,190
there's those that are struggling major

968
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:30,660
element Michaels that you actually try

969
00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:32,850
to look at abundance and or metrics for

970
00:43:36,770 --> 00:43:35,430
abundance I'm say using isotopes to back

971
00:43:39,950 --> 00:43:36,780
out the size of a particular reservoir

972
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:39,960
and then there are some that are more so

973
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:42,270
we're interested in biogenesis intifada

974
00:43:45,830 --> 00:43:44,010
me because just the simple presence of a

975
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:45,840
certain Connor molecule is hugely

976
00:43:51,050 --> 00:43:48,090
informative and both of us and wanted to

977
00:43:54,590 --> 00:43:51,060
share that is this aspect of biogenesis

978
00:43:56,990 --> 00:43:54,600
that the open chat we've had a script

979
00:43:58,580 --> 00:43:57,000
going on but curious if there are folks

980
00:44:00,050 --> 00:43:58,590
in particular I know Frank Crosetti is

981
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:00,060
contributing a lot to this this

982
00:44:05,660 --> 00:44:03,330
discussion wanna chime in is to turn

983
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:05,670
their aspects of to fajn autonomy or

984
00:44:08,750 --> 00:44:07,200
preservation that we're missing are

985
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:08,760
there they're simple things that we can

986
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:10,290
do I'm obviously pressure and

987
00:44:16,340 --> 00:44:13,050
temperature the things the most obvious

988
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:16,350
targets for knowledge to turn but is

989
00:44:28,070 --> 00:44:25,050
anything else maybe well he strike is is

990
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:28,080
thinking let me follow up on that so I

991
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:30,450
Harry Elderfield famously talked about

992
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:32,010
the lifespan of a proxy and he talked

993
00:44:36,260 --> 00:44:34,110
about early on the honeymoon periods

994
00:44:37,610 --> 00:44:36,270
when everyone was very excited and you

995
00:44:39,770 --> 00:44:37,620
could do almost anything you want it

996
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,780
with it and then it hit what I call the

997
00:44:42,660 --> 00:44:41,200
pit of despair where everyone

998
00:44:44,970 --> 00:44:42,670
but it's not going to be quite as simple

999
00:44:46,590 --> 00:44:44,980
as we initially imagined and then

1000
00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:46,600
eventually you climb out of that for an

1001
00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:48,070
individual proxy in front where the

1002
00:44:51,420 --> 00:44:49,870
utility lies and there's always some but

1003
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:51,430
it's never what you imagined initially

1004
00:44:55,860 --> 00:44:53,890
and I think that's happening I referred

1005
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:55,870
earlier to their to the Renaissance that

1006
00:45:00,420 --> 00:44:57,250
I think began in there in the late

1007
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:00,430
nineteen 1990s with precambrian studies

1008
00:45:05,610 --> 00:45:02,530
and part of that was motivated by very

1009
00:45:06,930 --> 00:45:05,620
important 1999 biomarker paper and a

1010
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:06,940
number of other things that came out

1011
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:09,370
following that and so I think we're

1012
00:45:13,740 --> 00:45:12,010
facing that a bit right now where we had

1013
00:45:15,210 --> 00:45:13,750
new tools that were velopment and

1014
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:15,220
validated and developed in modern

1015
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:17,290
systems and experimental systems and

1016
00:45:20,430 --> 00:45:18,790
everyone got very excited we were able

1017
00:45:23,250 --> 00:45:20,440
to say a lot of things and I think we're

1018
00:45:25,290 --> 00:45:23,260
now going through some reality checks

1019
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:25,300
about certainly with organic biomarkers

1020
00:45:28,770 --> 00:45:26,680
going through checks about what these

1021
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:28,780
things really are telling us and and how

1022
00:45:32,460 --> 00:45:30,250
they can be sustained and preserved

1023
00:45:33,810 --> 00:45:32,470
under a variety of conditions and so I

1024
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,820
think we're a little bit in the pit of

1025
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:35,200
despair for a number of these things

1026
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:37,510
it's probably unfairly deep and so it's

1027
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:39,970
an exciting time to to come out with a

1028
00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:42,010
lot of these things too but to get out

1029
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:43,750
of that pit but I think importantly it's

1030
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:45,490
really essential as many people are

1031
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:48,010
typing along that's and saying that we

1032
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:50,050
need to really think about that we need

1033
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:52,000
to revisit all of this with a much more

1034
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:53,680
sophisticated view of the effects of

1035
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:55,570
burial history and certainly we always

1036
00:45:58,830 --> 00:45:57,010
did that they're probably not well

1037
00:46:08,790 --> 00:45:58,840
enough so it's there's lots of

1038
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,800
opportunity for thank you Tim I'm just

1039
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:10,240
wondering for those of you who think

1040
00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:13,450
about experimental diagenesis or

1041
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:15,940
taphonomy and I see there's some

1042
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:17,770
discussion now getting more precise

1043
00:46:25,550 --> 00:46:23,170
about a problem with time scales and

1044
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:25,560
just scaling in general if there are

1045
00:46:31,050 --> 00:46:28,110
disciplines that are not typically

1046
00:46:34,830 --> 00:46:31,060
included within the NASA umbrella that

1047
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:34,840
could be recruited to help us tackle

1048
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:38,800
these type of scaling issues that would

1049
00:46:44,250 --> 00:46:41,410
bring thoughts from another disciplinary

1050
00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:44,260
community that would would be helpful if

1051
00:46:50,850 --> 00:46:46,150
any of you work with these people are

1052
00:46:53,140 --> 00:46:50,860
even aware of the fact that these type

1053
00:47:01,359 --> 00:46:53,150
of individuals who may

1054
00:47:06,809 --> 00:47:01,369
may exist thank you damn well people are

1055
00:47:12,789 --> 00:47:09,819
yeah Diane speaking about you know who

1056
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:12,799
else could we draw in food I've been

1057
00:47:19,630 --> 00:47:15,680
making overtures to the dental school at

1058
00:47:22,210 --> 00:47:19,640
USC because think about a lot of what

1059
00:47:24,339 --> 00:47:22,220
they do they work on both films that you

1060
00:47:25,839 --> 00:47:24,349
know calcify on your teeth and how to

1061
00:47:27,970 --> 00:47:25,849
get rid of those and how that process

1062
00:47:30,099 --> 00:47:27,980
works and they think about a lot of

1063
00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:30,109
things that are very different from what

1064
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:31,849
we think about but ultimately we're kind

1065
00:47:35,980 --> 00:47:33,680
of looking at a similar thing you know

1066
00:47:39,010 --> 00:47:35,990
we end up with this crusty thing that we

1067
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:39,020
wonder you know how do microbes interact

1068
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:42,170
with that so that's another area I think

1069
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:43,910
you know that we could potentially

1070
00:47:48,130 --> 00:47:46,400
explore just talk to these other people

1071
00:47:49,930 --> 00:47:48,140
that have a vastly different interest

1072
00:47:55,329 --> 00:47:49,940
and maybe something they've discovered

1073
00:48:03,490 --> 00:47:55,339
can help us and vice versa you know so

1074
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:03,500
anyway there you go thank you have about

1075
00:48:09,279 --> 00:48:06,650
eight minutes remaining we this

1076
00:48:11,970 --> 00:48:09,289
conversation will as I say will be

1077
00:48:14,410 --> 00:48:11,980
transcribed and put onto the website

1078
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:14,420
straight after this event so we would

1079
00:48:20,380 --> 00:48:17,510
like the conversation to continue please

1080
00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:20,390
on the website but in our last eight

1081
00:48:27,220 --> 00:48:24,529
minutes any other questions that NASA

1082
00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:27,230
should be considering as important

1083
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:29,089
questions to support the astrobiology

1084
00:48:57,780 --> 00:48:54,940
there was some early discussion in the

1085
00:48:59,830 --> 00:48:57,790
online open chat about different

1086
00:49:01,330 --> 00:48:59,840
environmental targets different extreme

1087
00:49:04,750 --> 00:49:01,340
environments or potential analog

1088
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:04,760
habitats no beyond the ones that we

1089
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:07,520
naturally flock to most quickly which

1090
00:49:10,210 --> 00:49:08,930
are kind of hydrothermal systems and

1091
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,220
stuff like that are there other places

1092
00:49:15,370 --> 00:49:12,800
that we should be looking today you know

1093
00:49:17,980 --> 00:49:15,380
employing a lot of modern molecular and

1094
00:49:32,270 --> 00:49:17,990
microbial techniques and things that we

1095
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:40,890
go ahead run I I just like to chime in

1096
00:49:46,860 --> 00:49:44,830
on that even though i work on saline

1097
00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:46,870
alkaline Lakes those are pretty good

1098
00:49:53,150 --> 00:49:49,830
analogies for what we might encounter

1099
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:53,160
under the regolith of Mars or in the

1100
00:50:01,770 --> 00:49:57,300
moons of the outer planets hyper saline

1101
00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:01,780
Brian's uh in a beneath the ice for

1102
00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:03,790
example due to cry out concentration I

1103
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:06,520
think though it's these various alien

1104
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:08,530
environments are worth looking at in

1105
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:11,110
addition to the spreading centers okay

1106
00:50:30,270 --> 00:50:28,240
bye thank you other questions raise your

1107
00:50:37,530 --> 00:50:30,280
hand we can drag you into the

1108
00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:37,540
conversation um I have a question I'd

1109
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:40,150
like to throw out there how do people

1110
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:42,480
feel about NASA investing more in

1111
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:47,650
development of violent 4matic platforms

1112
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:51,970
that the community could use to you know

1113
00:50:58,980 --> 00:50:55,810
really be able to effectively parse the

1114
00:51:01,320 --> 00:50:58,990
wealth of sequence data that is now

1115
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:01,330
becoming ever more readily available to

1116
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:03,700
us you know within the next five years

1117
00:51:09,210 --> 00:51:06,610
the sequencing of single cells is likely

1118
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:09,220
to become very easy and what I'm

1119
00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:12,010
wondering is if this is something that

1120
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:13,900
the community feels they're going to be

1121
00:51:18,830 --> 00:51:16,210
using in their research and if so are

1122
00:51:22,050 --> 00:51:18,840
they well equipped to do it and if not

1123
00:51:34,350 --> 00:51:22,060
what would be needed in order to make

1124
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:37,180
Chad would you like to join in quickly

1125
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:40,810
the last few minutes yes can you hear me

1126
00:51:46,570 --> 00:51:44,450
hello yes all right i said yeah i was

1127
00:51:48,190 --> 00:51:46,580
going to answer two ants question you

1128
00:51:50,890 --> 00:51:48,200
know the biologist you know we're

1129
00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:50,900
challenged with the ease of getting

1130
00:51:54,970 --> 00:51:53,420
sequence data now it's relatively easy

1131
00:51:57,370 --> 00:51:54,980
in the costs are coming down but it's

1132
00:51:59,770 --> 00:51:57,380
our problem is dealing with how do you

1133
00:52:01,570 --> 00:51:59,780
actually manage and analyze all the

1134
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:01,580
sequence data I mean we can't do that on

1135
00:52:07,090 --> 00:52:03,680
our laptops and an external hard drive

1136
00:52:09,370 --> 00:52:07,100
so I think you know there's lots of talk

1137
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:09,380
about using like amazon cloud computing

1138
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:12,170
and calling up like massive parallel

1139
00:52:17,530 --> 00:52:14,330
computers and just for like hourly

1140
00:52:20,860 --> 00:52:17,540
purposes but you know obviously we need

1141
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:20,870
to have collaborations with bayern

1142
00:52:24,850 --> 00:52:22,400
format assists who really know what

1143
00:52:28,780 --> 00:52:24,860
they're doing so I think you know having

1144
00:52:31,450 --> 00:52:28,790
investment in computational biology and

1145
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:31,460
and funding those projects that do have

1146
00:52:35,260 --> 00:52:32,720
collaborations I think would be really

1147
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:35,270
valuable I don't know about investing in

1148
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:37,970
NASA supercomputers but you know that

1149
00:52:43,690 --> 00:52:39,710
that might be possibility as well as

1150
00:52:45,730 --> 00:52:43,700
it's just eating biologists who have the

1151
00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:45,740
desire to do these massive you know

1152
00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:48,950
sequencing projects but you need the

1153
00:52:59,470 --> 00:52:51,380
computational power to get it done the

1154
00:53:02,670 --> 00:52:59,480
analyses part Thanks I see that there's

1155
00:53:05,770 --> 00:53:02,680
some interesting comments coming on now

1156
00:53:07,540 --> 00:53:05,780
about going beyond sequencing Jake

1157
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:07,550
Bailey and Paula we lender and our

1158
00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:09,440
Buddha boys have just chimed in on the

1159
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:12,260
importance of funding to culture bugs

1160
00:53:22,460 --> 00:53:16,130
and do genetics in in them maybe could

1161
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:29,630
you

1162
00:53:35,250 --> 00:53:32,100
bearing in mind we have two more minutes

1163
00:53:39,780 --> 00:53:35,260
left Paul has his head Paula have you

1164
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:39,790
signed up ok I'm here sorry very quickly

1165
00:53:46,170 --> 00:53:44,050
just to you know rear date with Jake

1166
00:53:48,180 --> 00:53:46,180
just said on the chat is that all this

1167
00:53:50,130 --> 00:53:48,190
information mathematics data that we get

1168
00:53:51,660 --> 00:53:50,140
is huge and we have a lot of it and I

1169
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:51,670
agree that we need some way to really

1170
00:53:55,110 --> 00:53:53,530
process it all together because right

1171
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:55,120
now I find myself using hodgepodge of

1172
00:53:57,660 --> 00:53:56,530
program from here and a program from

1173
00:54:00,240 --> 00:53:57,670
there and figuring out how to do it

1174
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:00,250
myself there was more of a central way

1175
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:01,690
of doing that be great but we also need

1176
00:54:05,130 --> 00:54:03,130
to expand that and beyond that we get

1177
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:05,140
all this data what do we do with it and

1178
00:54:08,820 --> 00:54:06,910
I think it brings us back to classic

1179
00:54:10,110 --> 00:54:08,830
genetics classic microbiology we need to

1180
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:10,120
go back and understand what these

1181
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:11,920
unknown seas are doing and that requires

1182
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:14,410
funding more microbial geneticist and

1183
00:54:20,700 --> 00:54:15,970
molecular biologists to really get at

1184
00:54:22,650 --> 00:54:20,710
that question thank you can I just throw

1185
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:22,660
it one other thing is people are sitting

1186
00:54:25,770 --> 00:54:23,890
and thinking and continuing this

1187
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:25,780
discussion which I hope they will one

1188
00:54:28,380 --> 00:54:26,800
thing that we haven't really talked

1189
00:54:30,180 --> 00:54:28,390
about at all for those of us who work in

1190
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:30,190
the earlier the ultimate limitation most

1191
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,170
of the things that we do is

1192
00:54:36,540 --> 00:54:34,240
accessibility to good material that's

1193
00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:36,550
well dated and so one thing that we all

1194
00:54:39,930 --> 00:54:37,630
might think about or what our

1195
00:54:43,110 --> 00:54:39,940
limitations are in terms of those things

1196
00:54:45,690 --> 00:54:43,120
including the access to good cleanly

1197
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:45,700
drilled material and there certainly is

1198
00:54:48,690 --> 00:54:47,200
a lot of activity happening but much

1199
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:48,700
more could happen in that regard and

1200
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:51,610
also working in new innovative ways to

1201
00:54:54,930 --> 00:54:53,290
think with the geochronology community

1202
00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:54,940
to try and better better date those

1203
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:56,260
things especially as we get deeper and

1204
00:55:00,900 --> 00:54:58,480
deeper into time so that's another topic

1205
00:55:02,610 --> 00:55:00,910
I think and think generally about what

1206
00:55:07,740 --> 00:55:02,620
we don't have now that we would would

1207
00:55:10,770 --> 00:55:07,750
like to have more of Tim thank you very

1208
00:55:13,980 --> 00:55:10,780
much indeed we by my calculation we are

1209
00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:13,990
now to the end of the this conference we

1210
00:55:19,140 --> 00:55:16,750
want this conversation to continue so

1211
00:55:22,140 --> 00:55:19,150
again we encourage everybody to go to

1212
00:55:23,220 --> 00:55:22,150
the website as soon as this event is

1213
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:23,230
over and look at some of the other

1214
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:26,710
themes a transcription of this chat will

1215
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:30,480
be up on library shortly and we will

1216
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:32,650
we'll be seeing you soon am I seeing

1217
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:34,930
missing Mary there's Mary wanting to say

1218
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:39,850
something good all right in that rich

1219
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:46,260
say that once again Mary please I had to

1220
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:48,310
step out and I was off camera so I just

1221
00:55:58,730 --> 00:55:50,850
decided to step in they hide everyone

1222
00:56:03,420 --> 00:56:01,560
thank you very much everybody we'll see

1223
00:56:04,830 --> 00:56:03,430
you again in the next conference in a